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Thread: #7714
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Zeppelin

Posted: 28 Aug 2014
Re: Stonewall
You became small minded to my initial question. The above is a small minded response.
Bambi

Posted: 28 Aug 2014
Re: Stonewall
I'm sorry for jumping in a thousand years after the main debate, but I LOVE the slogan,it takes me back to being about thirteen and riding in the back of my homophobic parents car, looking up at the motorway bridge I was passing under and seeing it there, bold as brass 'Some people are gay, Get over it! And for once I felt the world was on my side. That I wasn't unnatural or sickening or just plain weird. I was okay... They're the ones with the problem. Now if it can do that for me, it can do that for others. Yes it's powerful, yes it's strong but when it was released and now it HAS to be. People wouldn't listen very much to 'some people are gay, so would you mind terribly not punching me in the face, please?' Would they?
Homophobic hate crime is actually on the rise, with many people beleiving this is due to Gay rights being expanded, gay people on the T.V. are no longer just the camp queen in the festive button down, but ordinary people and the bigots don't like it, they want to 'remind' us they're stronger. So too bloody right we push back!
daviemoo

Posted: 28 Aug 2014
Re: Stonewall
I personally have seen a shit tonne of homophobic stuff lately, online, in real life, on the news, and it fucking annoys me. The slogan stonewall use is genius. It's not saying accept us and change your views - it's literally saying, this has nothing to do with you, go about your business. That's the most we can expect from anti gay bigots, that they will just fuck off and get on with their own lives and leave us be. It drives me absolutely to distraction to think that people think it's their right, their mission even, to dictate to me and others like me that we are wrong for something as pathetically minor as loving someone of the same sex. We live in a supposedly intelligent world and yet we have to put up with the ridiculous beliefs of these people, who blame us for everything from floods to demoralising a whole country, we have to hear about guys getting fucked with bottles in Russia, beheaded on the African continent... If you ask me stonewall do a damn good job and we're stupidly lucky that we can sit online talking about the things we do and a lot of that is down to them fighting against the utter bastards out there. So if you ask me they do the best job they can in a world where, just like @gnarlee said, homophobia is still pretty much prevalent. I don't ask them all to change their views and love watching me kiss my boyfriend. They just need to get over it.
Tamrielan

Posted: 29 Aug 2014
Re: Stonewall
I think the most pertinent question to be asking when considering the value of the slogan is: is it helping and if so, who is it helping?
Zeppelin

Posted: 03 Sep 2014
Re: Stonewall
@Tamrielan has put into one sentence what I have tried to achieve in a dozen paragraphs. When I feel good, i've been happy to kiss my boyfriend/s in the past. It took me a few years to get confident, but I don't lay the gay thing on thick, nor do I hang around with many lads that do, so when it boils down to a quick peck on the cheek or a brief cuddle, i've literally never noticed anyone ever bat an eye-lid to be fair. This isn't writing off that homophobia isn't an issue, but unless somebody is verbally or physically harrassing you, it's probably time to just get on with life. Sometimes, when I see random straight people sucking each others tonsils on the street I shout "get a room!" just for a giggle... life is like that... we're supposed to have a laugh sometimes... as hypocritical as this is baring in mind my personality: "Life actually isn't all doom and gloom".

newmy

Posted: 04 Sep 2014
Re: Stonewall
@Tamrielan Did you completely gloss over the part where @Bambi said

"It takes me back to being about thirteen and riding in the back of my homophobic parents car, looking up at the motorway bridge I was passing under and seeing it there, bold as brass 'Some people are gay, Get over it!' And for once I felt the world was on my side. That I wasn't unnatural or sickening or just plain weird. I was okay...They're the ones with the problem. Now if it can do that for me, it can do that for others."

See who it's helping?
Tamrielan

Posted: 04 Sep 2014
Re: Stonewall
Such condescension is unnecessary and unappreciated.

Especially given that my question was actually, in a way, rhetorical. I already knew who the slogan was "helping".

However, the intention of the slogan, at its face, is supposedly to get homophobes to come to their senses. Is it doing this? Probably not much. Is that actually the underlying intention of it? Again, seemingly not. It seems that the underlying intention is actually to help the self-confidence of LGBT individuals. And I feel that is a bit disingenuous.

So, that leads to some more questions. If this is not actually helping homophobes "get over it", and very possibly it is just inflaming their emotions and hardening hearts, and the target of the campaign is actually LGBT folk, why even bother targeting homophobes in the first place? Why not change the format to positive affirmations directed towards LGBT people, which would be a more direct, honest, helpful, and less inflammatory approach to accomplishing the same thing?
stewiestrapon

Posted: 04 Sep 2014
Re: Stonewall
I missed the part where helping the self-confidence of LGBT individuals was a bad thing?

Are we supposed to teach LGBT people that although there's nothing wrong with them, they should just keep their heads down and try not to "lay the gay thing on thick"?

I still don't get what we're supposed to avoid doing.

Back when I was in school a lot of people (including some of the teachers) used to comment that I had a "gay" voice. I stopped talking outright so as not to make myself a target. I'm still pretty awkward at real life conversation to this day as a direct result. But you know what? It didn't stop me from being a target. Something else about me gave it away. Then another thing. Then another thing. And like most teens, whatever they picked on I tried my best to stop doing it. The silly thing about this whole story is that I was very much asexual in my school years.

Why on earth should anyone have to go through that sort of shit? And we're not allowed to challenge it because we don't want to agitate the situation? We just need to make ourselves stronger so that we can tolerate more of it?

At any given date/time, you're more likely to come across someone making a homophobic comment than you are a LGBT couple openly holding hands/kissing. To me it's pretty clear who needs to shut the fuck up and get on with their own lives...
daviemoo

Posted: 04 Sep 2014
Re: Stonewall
I don't really get anything about that whole laying the gay thing on quick, it sounds sort of queer apologist to me- like, sorry my slightly different sexuality offends you, am I ok to just quickly peck my boyfriend... Fuck that Shit. Being gay is as surprising and scandalous as having brown or blue eyes to me and that's what I equate it to, and why I cannot understand why people get so het up over it. This slogan we're all on about is supposed to point that out- hey, this thing you're all bothered by is minor, maybe it's time to drop it and worry about things that matter.
And btw @stewiestrapon that all sounds shitty and sorry your asshat school was so shitty.
kev1

Posted: 21 Sep 2014
Re: Stonewall
Considering the original point was whether or not a slogan helps, and the reaction of *some* to the slogan, it's interesting to note how opinions have varied in the thread and how strongly put one or two are....so give this a bit of thought - stewie's comment about his time at school reminded me of mine;
The daily sport of 'lets-duff-up-the-homo. The girls who either wanted to prove the rumour was untrue or who figured they could return me to being normal, including the one who threatened me with being beaten up if I didn't reveal myself to her in all my glory.
Since she beat me up regularly anyway, I figured one more wouldn't make a lot of difference so refused; thereafter I was forever known as the boy who got his cock out for a mars bar.
At least that was the story she spread around but I never did figure where the mars bar came into it.
Things are better than they were.
Whatever slogans are used.

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